Login
iscover
Big things are coming for Little Real Estate; the network is now rolling out its innovative career concept to agents operating across the country.
REB’s Grace Ormsby recently sat down with Little Real Estate’s James Kirkland, the executive general manager of sales, marketing and expansion, and sales associate Chris Albrecht, to get the lowdown on Little’s big plans for growth – and how they are changing the income game for agents like Chris.
Here’s how the conversation went.
Grace Ormsby, REB: It's a time of great growth for you. Why now? What makes 2024 the time to be looking to expand?
James Kirkland, Little Real Estate: I think it’s a really good time for many reasons – not only what’s going on in the industry and the evolution of many different ways of doing business and doing real estate, but also for Little Real Estate, which has really been able to be a bit of a sleeping giant in the industry.
When we look at the east coast, we’re lucky enough to have offices from the Sunshine Coast right down to the south parts of Melbourne and have 15,000 properties under management. We currently have 30 agents. If you do the calculations on that, that’s about 500 properties per agent, which is too many.
It’s an equation, really, and also the thirst for expansion at a board level and at an executive level as well. We’ve communicated this really well to the team, and the whole team [is] really excited to see us really fulfil our potential.
GO: Chris, for you, what was the decision to join in on this? It does sound like it’s a pretty exciting time to be jumping on the train.
Chris Albrecht, Little Real Estate: Absolutely. There’s a lot of sides to that question.
The thing that drove me initially to make contact with Little was I had been working in the inner west, and where I was working was going through some financial difficulty, so I was looking for somewhere new to move to.
[Little Real Estate was] a bit more of a ‘plan B’ if I’m honest. I wasn’t sure I would move, depending on what happened with the company. I knew Little through talk in the industry, I knew they were looking to expand. I knew they were building a sales team.
Once I actually had that conversation, once I sat down with the recruiters, I could see that it was a very, very interesting proposition. So, I guess the first thing that got me considering it from a ‘plan B’ to maybe a ‘plan A’, was the cuts, the money.
When I sat down with the recruiter and we discussed what the numbers would be, I could do the math in my head pretty quickly, and I knew that it’d be somewhere around that 40 per cent to 50 per cent more based on what I did the previous year with my other company, so that was already hard to ignore.
After that, we were talking about what it would be like with the company. I think for me, the company I came from was more of a property management company where I was helping to take care of our clients, our landlords, while simultaneously building my own business – what we call organic business. There were a lot of similarities there with Little.
Then as we talked further about what the position entailed and what the advantages were with Little, we talked about their administration team, how they take a lot of the workload off the agent. [As] sales agents, we spend a lot of time figuring out how to reach out to our customers, how to reach out to our clients, and the administration team does a lot of that work for you with great marketing, great email systems, all these systems in place that work really well.
Then we talked about what it looks like with bringing landlords into the business, so bringing new landlords in, that was also very profitable for the agent. They really reward that with quite an interesting system.
Like, I could really see that multiplying into the five digits every year, adding onto what I’m already earning. Those things really put together, it was really interesting.
After going back and forth, what made a big difference for me, [was] there was a lot of transparency.
When we talked about the rent roll and the landlords, I actually sat down with the person that was recruiting me, Phil. We went through the patch of 300 landlords that I’d be servicing. I could see they were real, I could see the addresses.
That’s also something that I know from my colleagues and other people, there’s a lot of big talk in the recruitment phase, and I think there’s not enough people doing their due diligence.
I was always going to be very clear about that, and Little was always very clear with me. They’re always very transparent. I felt like what was on the table was real.
JK: Well described, Chris. You’ve just described our four pillars really succinctly, so thank you for that.
I think the one thing I would just say is that this hasn’t just happened overnight, what you’re describing there.
It’s really been eight months of work to look at the industry, look at what’s on offer, then look within and say, ‘What is truly our unique selling point?’
We’ve really, in the background, been doing a lot of work to get to this point. I’m super confident that if you’re writing a GCI level within a threshold that we’re looking for, you come in. We can quite easily generate an extra – depending on where you are – about $150,000 GCI a year.
GO: While there’s a lot of people who are doing amazing things on both sides of the coin, property management and sales, you don’t really get many agents coming in here and talking predominantly about property management. That’s really nice to hear.
You spent more time just then talking about the landlords and the property management side of things, Chris. You didn’t even mention sales once. How core is that to what you’re actually doing here?
JK: I think it’s critical.
If we look at the business of Little and how large it is – for starters, let’s talk about the size. Yep, 15,000 properties under management. There’s a lot of landlords, a lot of multiple [property] landlords – that is the core of the business.
For us at Little, it was really integral that if we’re going to grow and if we’re going to bring on new agents, that synergy between PM and sales and the business development team and bringing on new management, everyone needs to be on the same page.
That is in itself very unique, I would say. Not in many offices around Australia.
That’s a real proper chance to redefine what that looks like. We’ve got some really great initiatives within the business that’s allowed us to properly do that and to have salespeople really know and PMs know that they can legitimately work together – customer-first.
Yeah, I think it’s a unique situation.
CA: Absolutely. And I think for me as well, I wouldn’t say it’s without self-interest.
For me, as an agent, I was moving areas. I’m basically letting go of my entire database – it’s kind of starting from scratch.
I always knew that with the property management side and when they discuss those numbers with me, I’m always pretty conservative. As I said before, when you’re interviewing with jobs, you’ve got to take everything that’s said to you with a grain of salt. We don’t know each other yet.
I took the numbers that they suggested and I halved them. And even with that, I could still see that there would be a base of maybe $150,000 gross commission for the year.
That’s a really safe space; that’s a really confident base for me to be able to build my business, and that’s really where I want to be … that was a great place to start from.
GO: Really, you’re putting the customer first, but then you’re also servicing the agents who are just as core to the business?
JK: Yeah, I’d agree. And I think it’s how we communicate to our clients, our landlords – which is one of the key components to what Chris was talking about before – is how can we help in the marketing/nurturing of our landlords? By communicating to them relevant information on a regular basis with high frequency.
That’s what we’ve tried to create with our structure – to really allow our agents to be able to do what they do best. And that’s building relationships, that’s being able to list properties of the best quality, with presenting it to the market in the best way so they get the best results. That’s what we need our sales agents focused on. By being one company, 12 offices, it allows us to centralise a lot of that work and take it off the agent.
GO: What I love about this conversation, it’s a really good energy in the room. Chris, even the fact that you brought up that you just were sorting out a potential plan B, you didn’t necessarily need to make the move – and you’re talking about that with someone from within the business. There’s obviously that openness there, too.
JK: There was a dating period.
CA: I’ve always approached everything from sales deals that I put together to conversations with somebody that I may be working with or do work with; I’m always super transparent. I’m always super honest. It’s a far more comfortable way to live.
And if I felt like Little wasn’t able to accept that, if they couldn’t handle me as I am, in a way, I probably wouldn’t have continued with them. You’re exactly right. I did meet some other principals and different companies, and I knew that that relationship was never going to work.
I also liked that there wasn’t a principal. It’s a far more corporate environment. It’s something that I think I’ve really enjoyed about being at Little because I think too often that principal, regardless of which company it is, they’re all pretty much franchises. And that principal, they end up competing with you a lot of the time, which is not great, or their personality decides how your day looks, which is also not great.
GO: Everyone’s adults here. That’s what I feel like. It’s just, you know what you’re doing. We’ll let you go and do what you do best, and we’ll help you be your best. Is that correct?
CA: It’s a good way to put it. It’s a very nice balance of autonomy versus support. There was an expectation when I joined the company that I would be quite autonomous. But by no means does that mean there isn’t support. There’s this administration team in the background helping with a lot of my work. There’s a marketing team that’s been very supportive of my ideas; I think I was probably the first agent to come in and go, ‘I need to have my dog on all of my flyers.’ People need to recognise me from my context, which is my dog. My dog is far more popular than I am. I am confident enough to admit that. And they’ve always been very open to this, and I think that’s also worked really well for me.
JK: Bowie is the star of the show.
And I think just one other thing on that, Grace. I think it’s great to hear from Chris about that, but it’s all about the results, too, and that was part of your decision.
Chris, you did your numbers. I’ve got to say, to be at your auction and watch the gavel fall in your first sale, to me, was a great sign.
Someone who’s left an area, who’s listed a property in Bondi out of the rent roll and sold it under the hammer within six weeks. To me, that’s success.
That’s where there’s a two-way agreement here. That’s a genuine win-win. That business didn’t go elsewhere. It stayed within Little. And we’ve got a great new agent that’s come and joined, and has hit the ground running. That’s what we want to see.
GO: How has it been?
CA: I definitely felt like I better get this one done. It’s one of those moments where so much confidence will be gained with your employer, with the people you work with. If you just get that street cred!
It was not an easy campaign either. It wasn’t uncontested – the owner was talking to other agents. But the reality is, I never would have been in the door. I never would have been considered had it not been on the property management side.
I know that moving into a new area, I’m never going to be on the shopping list, but being part of the property management side, having that connection gets me on the shopping list.
I’ve been doing it for eight years. I’m not that green, so I know how to explain why I’m better than my competitors. It was good. It wasn’t long until that lead came to me and I could call that landlord and we could discuss things and see how we could service him. And, yeah, I think it worked.
JK: And now it’s about leveraging that result. Right. You wouldn’t have been in the door, but you’ve now sold it and now it’s about leveraging – and it’s in a big building with lots of other properties where you can actually go to start prospecting.
That’s the point. Every sale should lead into a new listing that’s not necessarily from the rent roll either. We want to see that. It’s critical.
GO: How much do you guys talk?
JK: We’re a national business. We’ve got 12 offices. I work out of the Bondi office. But literally we’re about this distance [points to 1 metre] away from each other most days.
But as you said, sales needs to be autonomous. Sales needs to be self-motivated. If you don’t have that self-motivation, you probably shouldn’t be in sales, to be honest.
Chris, I know he’s got a really good strategy. He’s pulse checked that with me many times and he’s on the right course and we’re here to support him in that journey. We know his goals and we’re going to count those goals down until he reaches them.
GO: I’m guessing that this isn’t necessarily going to suit all people, this model?
JK: We certainly don’t think that either.
In terms of the way we think about it is that if you’re an agent riding between $200,000 to maybe $450,000, you might have reached the ceiling. Maybe you have a sales associate, maybe you don’t. I suppose they’re the people [we’re looking for].
If you’re within the areas that we’re looking for, we have a big goal this year, and it’s to go from 30 agents to 60 agents. We’ll double our sales team in one year.
We know the areas that we need to grow in. But if you’re in that range, if we’re going to give you a portfolio like Chris has just described, let’s say it’s 200 people, 200 landlords – 10 per cent of them are coming to market at the moment nationally.
You should be getting a pretty high percentage of those wins, given that we’ve got the keys, the tenant’s details and the owner’s details. If we’re doing the right activities and we’re building the right relationships and talking to them with relevancy and following the dotted line with the marketing that we’re doing and how we’re nurturing them on behalf of the agent, you’re going to generate, as you said, whether it be $150,000 or it might be in some of the other parts of the state, it might be slightly less. In other parts it’ll be more, it’ll be more like $250,000. It’s just a pretty simple equation.
It’s very unique because there isn’t a principal. I worked in offices in my career where I sold a grand total of zero properties out of the rent roll. I’d expect that was always going to the principal and that’s fair enough. We’re just not that structure. We want our agents to be calling, we want them building relationships. We’ve got to trust each other on that front, and we do.
GO: Doubling your agent count – and you talk about awakening the sleeping giant! It is no mean feat to have 15,000 properties under management. Does it feel like now is the perfect time to be growing?
JK: It just feels right in the business and everyone’s very dedicated and very focused on what this is going to look like in the next three years. The focus now is the next 12 months.
Chris is one of eight agents that have joined us in the last quarter, and there’s a good cohort of them that have started in Melbourne, and we’ve seen them do very similar to what Chris has done: hit the ground running.
He’s not the only one. There’s many. Queensland is a big focus for us. Queensland, the team that we currently have, has done an exceptional job in the last financial year. It’s been quite incredible to see their growth and that’s going to be a big focus.
GO: Chris, if you don’t mind sharing … What are some of your goals?
CA: I’ve actually just had a baby! Rather, my wife has had a baby. My priority at the moment is to build a business that can support my family, and it’s a good motivator. I dare say it’s stronger than getting a new car.
In terms of numbers, I do have a pretty ambitious goal for the financial year. I’ve only just started and yet I have to build a whole new database, so to speak, but I have somewhat been given one by Little.
My hope with that is that I can get into $400,000 for the year. It’s probably a bit ambitious for my first year in a brand-new area.
JK: No, it’s not.
CA: I want to try. I definitely want to try and get that.
JK: The input, the activity is there. Trust the process.
GO: Exactly. And with a team behind you like Little, it sounds like you are so well-placed to achieve that goal with everything else that's going on. Congratulations on the new baby. That’s very exciting!
Just to wrap up before I let you guys go, the pillars that we’ve already mentioned, James, just how important are they to what you guys are doing?
JK: It’s something that we’ve worked on for a while to be able to say, ‘Here [are] the four pillars that we will bring on agents, and we will accelerate their careers in terms of earnings, but also their enjoyment and feeling supported.
The four pillars at Little. First of all, the obvious one: the portfolio, the rent roll and the access to that which we’ve mapped out.
We have certain areas that we’re going after, and so that’s the core and from that you’re generating, as a national average, about $150k GCI on top of whatever you’re writing – $200k to $400k.
As far as the marketing is concerned, centralising that and taking a lot of the load off the agent and knowing that they have a team – a marketing team – that are communicating to their landlord database, their non-landlord database, and we’ve plugged in AI so we can see their behaviours and can alert the agents on who best to call based on their propensity. That’s some pretty good tech that we’ve plugged into.
The sales support and administration, it’s spoken about a lot in the industry. [Many businesses have] offshored a lot of that and there [are] companies running around offering a lot of that sort of work so it’s nothing new.
But for us, I think it’s all about the granular detail that we’ve been able to really identify – and it’s an ongoing thing. I don’t think we’re there. Every week to month, we’re peeling more and more things off the agent.
We’re at a level where we’d be taking 75 per cent off the agent in terms of admin. To get to that level, you’re talking about having a sales associate. I think in the coming months, it’ll just get better and better.
The final pillar is where our growth lies within the business itself. We’ve created a structure that we’re going to organically grow our rent roll across the entire country by using internal referral. It’s a very lucrative way that an agent can not let a buyer walk out of an OFI.
If they’re an investor, we want to talk to them. Whether it be someone that you’ve just sold or whether they’re about to buy their first investment, second investment, we want to talk to them at Little.
There’s an offer of $1,000 upfront once we take over the management, or we close that management. But also, I think what’s really important is the longevity of that management. PM and sales are joined at the hip to make sure that we keep it.
We’ve got a good client approach. After 18 months, [agents will] get a 1.5 multiple of that property management, so they’ll be paid out. If it’s a $600 a week property, on an average of 6 per cent commission rate – higher if it’s in Queensland – an agent’s going to be producing about $2,800 extra income out of that one management. You can start doing the maths. If there’s two a month, three a month, it starts to really stack up.
So there’s the four pillars that we’re really focused on, on how our growth strategy is going to work.
GO: With what you said, Chris, about the money, it’s not everything, but it does matter in this day and age, doesn’t it? Cost of living, things are biting. People are finding it more difficult, but clearly not at Little Real Estate.
If people do want to reach out, if they have any questions for you, maybe they’re like Chris, and it’s only a ‘plan B’ to even consider a move. Is that something you’re welcoming with people, those kinds of conversations?
JK: Absolutely, we are. You know, the teams are all set. They’ve been doing an amazing job. Our growth team and our talent acquisition team are ready to talk to agents right down the eastern seaboard and in those major cities – Sydney, Brisbane, Melbourne, the Gold Coast, Sunshine Coast are where we’re really focused on.
Get in touch with Little. Reach out and ask for me, or Phil Eldret, he’s our head of talent acquisition, so get in touch. We’re keen to talk.
Learn more about Little Real Estate here.
Listen to the full conversation with James Kirkland and Chris Albrecht here.
Editor’s note: This conversation has been edited and abridged from the original transcript for clarity.
